--- Log opened Пнд Сен 11 00:00:24 2006
--- Day changed Пнд Сен 11 2006
00:00 < marcheu> maybe that's related... maybe that's some command in common to all *ee* objects, I really don't know
00:00 < darktama> I don't think it's object-related.. but I don't know either
00:01 < marcheu> well, it kindof setups a viewport right ?
00:01 < darktama> yes, but NV30_TCL_PRIMITIVE_3D also has commands to do that
00:01 < darktama> and, they do work..
00:02 < marcheu> hmm
00:02 < jkolb_> maybe it's aliased or something
00:04 < marcheu> darktama: I was thinking maybe it was some video memory cache invalidation
00:05 < marcheu> it looks weird enough that it could be cache stuff
00:05 < pmdata> any idea what NV30_TCL_PRIMITIVE_3D      [0x03c8,3cc,3d0,3d4, etc.] could be? related to clip planes
00:05 < pmdata> set as 0x151501 on g70gl, 0x101001 on g70
00:05 < pmdata> oops, the other way round
00:07 < darktama> marcheu: hmm, could be
00:07 < pmdata> could g70 have more than 8 clip planes?
00:07 < marcheu> pmdata: 2D or 3D ?
00:09 < pmdata> 3d
00:10 < pmdata> 0x2c0 to 0x2fc seems to also be color offset (2d), but there are much more values than for g70
00:10 < marcheu> hmm I have some nvidia footage about quadros
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00:13 < marcheu> relevant features are  : - 12 bit subpixel precision - high quality FSAA - high precision HDR - accelerated pixel readback - pure vide
00:13 < marcheu> video
00:14 < darktama> pure video is hype for textured video isn't it?
00:14 < marcheu> yes
00:14 < marcheu> with shaders for post processing
00:14 < marcheu> pmdata: if you want I can take a picture of that document
00:15 < jkolb_> if it's the 4500 it could be that that's the video out stuff
00:15 < pmdata> this is listed in the product overview from nvidia
00:15 < pmdata> overlay planes maybe?
00:16 < marcheu> does 12 bits subpixel mean a RGBA12 visual ? like on SGIs ?
00:16 < marcheu> jkolb_: do you get such visuals ?
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00:17 < pmdata> should we add glxinfo dump to the dumps?
00:18 < marcheu> pmdata: ah, could make sense
00:18 < jkolb_> what am i looking for?
00:18 < marcheu> jkolb_: in glxinfo, there's a list of visuals at the end
00:18 < jkolb_> yeah but what attribs are you looking for?
00:18 < marcheu> well, 12 bits RGBA
00:19 < marcheu> instead of 8
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00:19 < marcheu> on SGI it says like :
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00:19 < marcheu> 0x5c 24 tc  . 48  . r  .  . 12 12 12 12  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  . .
00:19 < jkolb_> don't see any
00:19 < marcheu> ok
00:19 < jkolb_> they're all 8 8 8 0 or 8 8 8 8
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00:26 < jkolb_> is the nouveau exa driver faster than the proprietary nvidia x driver?
00:26 < marcheu> no, and I don't think we'll get any close until the EXA core stuff is improved
00:27 < marcheu> the hw dependent EXA driver in itself is pretty dumb, all the smartness is in the core EXA
00:28 < marcheu> #1 issue being correct pixmap placement (when to put pixmaps in video or system memory)
00:28 < jkolb_> is it really far behind? i think i remember hearing something about how nvidia was concerned about the acceleration architecture so it used its own. at that time it was xaa though
00:28 < jkolb_> isn't exa only a short term fix though before the move to egl?
00:28 < marcheu> hah. big question
00:29 < marcheu> it might not, we don't know
00:29 < jkolb_> that was the original intent i believe
00:29 < jkolb_> egl just sounds better ;)
00:29 < marcheu> both redhat and nvidia are pushing for the EXA + indirect GLX way
00:29 < marcheu> OTOH novell pushes egl/Xglx forward
00:29 < marcheu> I suppose the bigger ones will win...
00:30 < marcheu> basically, rendering everything as opengl limits your FB size
00:30 < marcheu> to the point that it's annoying (2048 on r100, 2560 on r300 IIRC)
00:31 < marcheu> there are also another number of reasons, nvidia's xdc talk wat about that
00:31 < marcheu> the 2nd one
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00:32 < jkolb_> why is 2d an issue?
00:32 < marcheu> http://developer.nvidia.com/object/xdevconf_2006_presentations.html
00:32 < marcheu> read the 2nd paper there :)
00:32 < pmdata> "not invented here" syndrom?
00:32 < marcheu> because 3D has a size limit of, say, 2048. that means your mergedfb max resolution is 2048. which means no more than 2* 1024x768
00:33 < jkolb_> ahhh
00:33 < jkolb_> that is a big issue
00:33 < marcheu> really, read the paper for other issues
00:33 < marcheu> also, nvidia has been using the 3D engine to perform 2D operations for long (at least nv10) so it couldn't care less
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00:34 < marcheu> (for example if you do a SCALED_IMAGE and catch it rendering between two frames, you can see it's made of 2 triangles)
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00:40 < jkolb_> weird that they're promoting exa but don't use it
00:40 < darktama> they're not promoting exa, rather promoting the current ddx system
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21:42 < marcheu> pmdata, darktama: ping ?
21:42 < darktama> pong
21:42 < marcheu> pmdata, darktama: we should decide what needs to be in our minigl layer
21:43 < marcheu> I mean, now
21:43 < darktama> hm, ok
21:44 < darktama> one sec, gotta grab another coffee :)
21:44 < marcheu> I don't think that'll take much time, though (I hope not at least :)
21:44 < pmdata> game set and match
21:45 < pmdata> I don't know enough about dri driver to make a decision
21:45 < marcheu> pmdata: it's about the 2D driver
21:45 < marcheu> implementing EXA over the 3D pipeline, more specifically
21:49 < darktama> btw, any reason why we need to decide "right now"?
21:49 < marcheu> yes, because I intend to write code :)
21:49 < darktama> ahh
21:50 < phh> just write it ? :)
21:50 < darktama> well, for starters we need: to be able to setup a surface (perhaps based on drawable info), be able to bind drawables as textures, submit vertex data
21:52 < marcheu> darktama: since you have some of that implemented already, where do you advise to do the split ?
21:52 < marcheu> darktama: also, if you think that doesn't benefit anyone, we might not do it
21:52 < marcheu> is your intent to expose 2D functionality at that level ?
21:53 < darktama> originally, I had only intended on doing Composite with the 3D engine.. and perhaps implement textured video
21:53 < marcheu> yeah, to me the biggest headache so far is the whole surface format issue
21:54 < marcheu> not all cards can take all formats, not all cards can convert on the fly..
21:54 < darktama> yup, at the moment my code only handles rendering to 32bpp surfaces
21:55 < darktama> or rather, when pDrawable->bitsPerPixel == 32.. which seems to be the case (most of the time) when X is running in depth 24
21:57 < marcheu> well it gets more complicated as you start handling 8bpp or even video formats..
21:59 < darktama> ok, what do we need from video?  EXA doesn't need much at all
21:59 < darktama> we also need to consider cards that don't have a fixed-function pipeline
22:00 < marcheu> for video, the best is if we can upload YUV stuff as-is and have the card convert & render at the same time
22:02 < darktama> so we need to know YUV texture formats for that?
22:02 < pmdata> what about cards that have video hw overlay and support yuv surfaces?
22:03 < marcheu> well, I don't know really. we may want to hide the video blitter code behind the same interface
22:04 < marcheu> darktama: yeah, if we know yuv texture formats that's better
22:05 < pmdata> for info, I don't know much more about the ddx/drm driver :)
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22:07 < marcheu> also, we may want to use a hint that the incoming data is for video or not, since we really want high quality scaling for video
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22:52 < jkolb> that was a quick meeting ;)
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--- Log closed Втр Сен 12 00:00:36 2006
