--- Log opened Пнд Авг 28 00:00:24 2006
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02:00 < marcheu> stillunknown: probably set when doing VT switches ?
02:10 < stillunknown> not sure to what you are responding (and i'm going to bed soon), but terminal switching works fine
02:11 < stillunknown> shutting down xorg or using xrandr doesn't
02:11 < stillunknown> (with xrandr the (hardware) cursor remains visible even if xorg is restarted)
02:12 < stillunknown> i have looked at the sourcecode and even tried one or two things, but that failed due to limited knowledge
02:12 < marcheu> 17:37 < stillunknown> anyone know what vtSema is?
02:13 < stillunknown> vtSema is triggered when starting xorg and shutting down
02:13 < marcheu> yeah, and I think VT switches
02:13 < stillunknown> but i determined that that the vtSema = TRUE requirement is not a probem
02:13 < stillunknown> the sourcecode sais otherwise :-)
02:14 < stillunknown> at startup it becomes true and at shutdown it becomes false
02:14 < marcheu> and when doing ctrl-alt-F1 ?
02:14 < stillunknown> and once (just before shut down) it's checked to be true
02:14 < marcheu> I suppose it will be triggered as well
02:14 < stillunknown> check nv_driver.c, it's not there
02:15 < stillunknown> the strange thing is that the cursor remains on terminal 1 after shutdown, but not during any of the switches
02:15 < stillunknown> it only occurs (probably) with a terminal framebuffer driver active
02:15 < marcheu> hehe you're right, I guess vtSema got broken at some point
02:16 < marcheu> hmm, maybe we should start having a bugzille
02:16 < stillunknown> i wondered about that too
02:16 < stillunknown> since bugs are frequent
02:17 < stillunknown> or at least a mailing list
02:17 < marcheu> well, for tracking bugs, rather a bugzilla :)
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02:22 < stillunknown> true, but a mailinglist is also something to consider
02:23 < stillunknown> but not too much seperation, something along the lines of a nouveau-friends mailinglist
02:25 < marcheu> I really like the idea of koala's companion
02:25 < marcheu> turning irc logs into some publicly-readable kind of newsletter
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02:26 < stillunknown> an app which i frequently use has one mailinglist, it contains information about every cvs commit/release, semi-bug reports float around there and general ideas
02:27 < stillunknown> for a small group that works well
02:27 < marcheu> we have a commit list already
02:27 < stillunknown> (even without irc channel)
02:27 < stillunknown> that's true, but no sure way to spread an idea
02:27 < stillunknown> or concerns
02:27 < marcheu> well, development happens on irc for now.. it's a very fast means of communication
02:27 < stillunknown> without talking to everyone in irc
02:28 < marcheu> you have to be careful not to dillute conversations
02:28 < marcheu> irc is faster, in that you just get a consensus on some issues very quickly
02:28 < stillunknown> true, but a bugtracker really is needed
02:29 < marcheu> sure, now that we have code to show and thus bugs as well :)
02:29 < stillunknown> this is the 4th or 5th bug in a few days and imagine they will continue to come
02:29 < stillunknown> (bug that i find\)
02:30 < marcheu> anyway, back to tracking my bug :)
02:30 < marcheu> I get all possible bugs here
02:30 < marcheu> which is good somehow, since I can fix them :)
02:31 < stillunknown> yes, but a bugtracker does have advantages
02:31 < stillunknown> since not all bugs will be easily fixable
02:31 < stillunknown> and they will pile up eventually
02:31 < marcheu> yup
02:32 < marcheu> anyway we just have to ask the fd.o bugzilla to add a driver name or two...
02:32 < marcheu> (and hope that the base doesn't get corrupt again)
02:32 < stillunknown> but i have to go to bed now, it's getting late, darktama will try to look for my bug tomorrow (so talk to him if you are going to try anything)
02:33 < stillunknown> goodnight
02:33 < marcheu> nope, got my drm bug already... it looks like the new addmap code is giving us issues
02:33 < marcheu> night
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03:29  * airlied isn't sure a bug tracker is required until we have some release done.. we know there are lots of bugs, we don't want ppl to keep logging 3D doesn't work and me too!!
03:30 < marcheu> heh, fair enough
03:31 < marcheu> although the "me too" phenomenon will also happen at a later stage I think (seeing how radeon gets it :)
03:34 < airlied> hehe.. radeon's me too is always card hangs, and everyone joins in.. it gets most annoying..
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03:36 < marcheu> yeah, darktama did something nice with the ddx, i.e. quit on fifo timeouts instead of trying to recover, which makes finding bugs easier
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04:11 -!- Topic for #nouveau: http://nouveau.freedesktop.org | open source 3D acceleration for nvidia cards | card dumps at http://nouveau.sourceforge.net/tests/ | http://perso.orange.fr/patrice.mandin/images/nv-kitten.jpg
04:11 -!- Topic set by sturmflut [] [Sun Aug 13 17:02:24 2006]
04:11 [Users #nouveau]
04:11 [@ChanServ] [ ajmitch ] [ ddl     ] [ lumag_offline] [ predatorfreak] [ zoeloelip] 
04:11 [ ag      ] [ b33fc0d3] [ etzel   ] [ Myrizio      ] [ swany        ] 
04:11 [ airlied ] [ dagb    ] [ Gentle__] [ nano-        ] [ tibbs        ] 
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04:11 -!- Channel #nouveau created Sun Jun 25 07:52:56 2006
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10:24 < pef> hello
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13:07 < Duke`> hi
13:08  * Duke` has 2-days long log buffer to read
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14:00 < stillunknown> is Xv something that can be accelerated a lot?
14:01 < marcheu> more than what we currently do, yes
14:02 < stillunknown> i noticed virtually no X cpu usage using the nvidia drivers, while there was considerable cpu usage with nouveau/nv
14:02 < darktama> keep in mind that nvidia does a lot in-kernel, and you wouldn't see it in X's CPU usage
14:03 < marcheu> the nv Xv implementation uploads the data with a simple CPU copy, while the nvidia one does a DMA
14:04 < darktama> ah, that's something we could do fairly simply
14:13 < stillunknown> brb
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14:19 < stillunknown> that would be nice, reducing cpu load is always nice :-)
14:21 < stillunknown> i now see what the advantage of git is, it's seems almost automatic in maintaining multiple branches
14:45 < stillunknown> am i right in assuming that vtSema should be false while in another terminal?
14:45 < stillunknown> marcheu: ?
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15:17 < marcheu> stillunknown: that's what I'd expect, judging by its name, and that's what I told you yesterday
15:20 < Duke`> does someone know why the modelines are not the same in nv and in nvidia? (the horizontal shift of the screen when changing driver from one to the other)
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15:59  * darktama sighs
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16:04 < marcheu> darktama: ?
16:08 < stillunknown> http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/utwd5r23.html <-- i tried to reintroduce vtSema into virtual terminal switching, but switching back doesn't seem to work
16:09 < darktama> marcheu: yeah.. not sure why I typed that.. lets just say it's been long day :)
16:10 < stillunknown> is there an obvious flaw in those functions?
16:10 < marcheu> stillunknown: did you look back at cvs history for these functions ?
16:10 < marcheu> it might be the better way to understand that stuff
16:12 < stillunknown> good idea, but i think i know the problem, in NVLeaveVT i set the virtual terminals vtSema to FALSE, not the x-server
16:12 < stillunknown> which leads me to the problem of figuring out how to get the xorg pScrn pointer
16:13 < darktama> stillunknown: you're chasing the pointer bug?
16:14 < stillunknown> no
16:15 < stillunknown> just want to fix a "simple" flaw in the code
16:15 < stillunknown> (re?)introducing vtSema into virtual terminals
16:16 < stillunknown> vtSema is the flag responsable for touching or leaving certain memory alone
16:16 < stillunknown> http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xorg/2005-July/008529.html <-- only clue i found
16:18 < stillunknown> i'm a newbie when it comes to coding, so i'll leave the serious bugs to you :-)
16:20 < darktama> I'm still not sure what you're trying to achieve exactly :)
16:20 < stillunknown> vtSema (should) lock certain driver related stuff/memory, the driver should not be touched when in a virtual terminal
16:21 < stillunknown> at least that is how i understand it
16:22 < stillunknown> it seemed simple enough, so i thought i'd try
16:23 < stillunknown> anyone know the difference between ScrnInfoPtr and NVPtr?
16:23 < darktama> NVPtr is the driver's private date
16:23 < stillunknown> (can't seem to find where it is defined)
16:23 < darktama> data*
16:23 < darktama> ScrnInfoPtr defines an X screen
16:24 < stillunknown> both are non-static?
16:24 < darktama> yes
16:24 < darktama> NVPtr is a pointer to an _NVRec struct (nv_type.h)
16:25 < stillunknown> is there a "universal" function to discover the current screenindex?
16:25 < darktama> I don't know :)  I think X just passes it into driver functions where appropriate
16:25 < marcheu> stillunknown: pScrn->scrnIndex
16:26 < stillunknown> i know that, but i need to know the equivilant of the starting point when i only have the destination pointer
16:26 < darktama> destination pointer?
16:27 < stillunknown> when NVEnterVT is called, the index of the target screen is given with it
16:27 < marcheu> xf86Screens[pScrn->scrnIndex]
16:27 < stillunknown> but i need to know the current index
16:28 < marcheu> yah
16:28 < marcheu> you always have to know one thing
16:28 < stillunknown> NVEnterVT(int scrnIndex, int flags)
16:28 < stillunknown> {
16:28 < stillunknown>     ScrnInfoPtr pScrn = xf86Screens[scrnIndex];
16:28 < marcheu> therefore, 90% of the functions in the driver have a pointer to a kind of struct as a parameter
16:28 < marcheu> yeah, so what's the problem ?
16:28 < marcheu> you know the scrnIndex
16:29 < stillunknown> but that's the target scrnIndex
16:29 < marcheu> hu ?
16:29 < stillunknown> let me ask something else
16:30 < stillunknown> the virtual terminal index isn't passed into that function?
16:30 < marcheu> no, that's the X screen number
16:30 < stillunknown> i pasted the wrong function
16:30 < stillunknown> NVLeaveVT(int scrnIndex, int flags)
16:30 < stillunknown> {
16:30 < stillunknown>     ScrnInfoPtr pScrn = xf86Screens[scrnIndex];
16:30 < marcheu> yeah, same
16:31 < stillunknown> also the X-server screenindex?
16:31 < marcheu> yup
16:31 < marcheu> xf86Screens holds X screens, and doesn't know about VT
16:32 < stillunknown> oh, then i have no clue what's wrong :-(
16:32 < marcheu> scrnIndex it's even 0 most of the time (so that if you're really lazy and have only one screen, you can get the pScreen from anywhere by doing a xf86Screens[0]
16:32 < stillunknown> i thought i was passing vtSema = FALSE into a virtual terminal
16:32 < marcheu> but this is bad, so don't do it :)
16:33 < stillunknown> but if i'm not, then i'm even worse at coding that i already tought
16:35 < stillunknown> maybe the check for vtSema true or false isn't needed and only defining it is enough
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17:00 < stillunknown> it seems almost stupid to post this, but this should be enough: http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/LS5suZ77.html
17:00 < marcheu> well, does it work ?
17:01 < stillunknown> it runs, but it's not like it's a new feature :-)
17:01 < stillunknown> http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xorg/2005-July/008529.html
17:01 < stillunknown> mostly based on that post
17:02 < marcheu> it's getting more complicated with exa allocation and in-kernel stuff, as we have to stop everything from moving to/from vram
17:03 < stillunknown> i think it's best to built stuff the right way, even if EXA still has to catch up
17:05 < stillunknown> the next message suggest it was fixed
17:06 < marcheu> hmm, you're right that vtSema can be used by X
17:06 < marcheu> so that can be fixed inside X
17:06 < stillunknown> i must say that the code cleanups in last few days are making things behave better
17:06 < marcheu> so yeah, we have to set it on VT switch, although I suspect it's already the case with the code right now. did you test ? probably that it's called already...
17:07 < stillunknown> i don't know how to test something like that
17:08 < marcheu> add some messages in the VT switch functions, and in the ScreenInint/Close ones
17:08 < marcheu> run X, do a VT switch, and look at the log :)
17:08 < stillunknown> i assume there is a debug function somewhere?
17:09 < marcheu> xf86DrvMsg is what you use to output stuff to the log
17:09 < stillunknown> xf86DrvMsg("Hello");
17:09 < stillunknown> ?
17:09 < marcheu> grep the existing code :)
17:09 < stillunknown> ok
17:13 < stillunknown> but can i assume that at the end of NVLeaveVT or NVEnterVT xorg has already changed vtSema if it does it by default, or is there a better place i can put a debug message?
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18:31 < phh> hello
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18:39 < stillunknown> anyone know which % is needed for boolean in xf86DrvMsg?
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18:59 < stillunknown> marcheu: vtSema during terminal switching is *PROBABLY* handled by xorg elsewhere
19:00 < stillunknown> since the flag is already active when switching back to xorg even if i  don't set it
19:00 < stillunknown> it's definately needed on startup and shutdown of xorg
19:01 < stillunknown> since the flag is already active when switching back to xorg even if i  don't set it <-- earlier i set the flag for false
19:10 < stillunknown> it is also possible it's not ok, but i will look at that now
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20:14 < stillunknown> marcheu: i think VT switching is handled by some part of xorg, while startup and shutdown is really the job of the driver
20:16 < marcheu> stillunknown: yup, that's what I said before, vtSema is used by X
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20:19 < stillunknown> vtSema at init and shutdown is critical, removing them hangs the system at shutdown :-)
20:20 < phh> that's nice.
20:21 < phh> (or not)
20:21 < phh> stillunknown, hangs, not only the console hangs ?
20:22 < stillunknown> console
20:23 < stillunknown> didn't test ssh, because i don't have my laptop atm
20:24 < EdB> time for me to change my xorg so is it a good idea to switch to nouveau driver ? :o)
20:25 < stillunknown> depends on what your requirements are
20:26 < EdB> stillunknown, compare to nv driver
20:26 < phh> EdB, nop
20:26 < phh> only DRM & EXA
20:27 < phh> (plop au fait)
20:27 < EdB> phh, so it's better than nv
20:27 < phh> EdB, it isn't less right
20:27 < EdB> hehe :o)
20:27 < stillunknown> it seems to respond a little faster
20:27 < stillunknown> but not much
20:28 < phh> still far than nvidia :/
20:28 < EdB> yes but don't forget, open source guy's can't make good driver
20:29 < EdB> :o)
20:29 < phh> chhhhhhut
20:30 < stillunknown> i hope improved Xv will come soon (using dma acces instead of directly acces cpu)
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20:32 < stillunknown> phh: turn of accel for the free drivers and get really scared :-)
20:33 < phh> stillunknown, or simply use vesa driver ?
20:34 < stillunknown> probably, but it's really scary
20:34 < stillunknown> you can see text editors redraw
20:39 < stillunknown> found a really interresting lecture on google video yesterday, a guy named Richard Stallman speaks about free software
20:39 < phh> lol
20:40 < stillunknown> never heard of that name then, now i have
20:41 < stillunknown> but why the lol?
20:44 < stillunknown> phh: ?
20:45 < phh> i really never heard about Richard Stallman Oo
20:47 < stillunknown> phh: sarcasm?
20:47 < phh> i thaught that every linux users known richard stallman ....
20:48 < EdB> the man who wrote the GPLK
20:48 < EdB> GPL
20:48 < phh> EdB, you only see that ?
20:48 < phh> i see in him:
20:48 < phh> -Creator of the GNU project
20:49 < EdB> phh, no but for the short
20:49 < phh> -Creator and maintainer of emacs (even if i can't beer it)
20:49 < phh> EdB, really short
20:49 < phh> my version is short right
20:49 < stillunknown> no, it's only recently that i've seen the real difference between open source and free software
20:49 < zoeloelip> - FSF
20:49 < stillunknown> no, as i don't know him
20:50 < marcheu> - gcc ! :)
20:50 < stillunknown> gnu c compiler?
20:50 < marcheu> yup
20:50 < zoeloelip> stillunknown: just open 10 man pages you can think of
20:50 < hanno> stillunknown, but rms would probably not like it to have his videos on a proprietary platform using patented codecs ;-)
20:50 < zoeloelip> and check authors
20:51 < EdB> gcc gnu compiler collection damm ! :o)
20:51 < zoeloelip> a lot of the linux userland was initially written by RMS
20:51 < hanno> stillunknown, you can see stallman as some kind of first visioneer of free software
20:51 < stillunknown> i found that after an hour of watching it
20:52 < zoeloelip> stillunknown: http://www.stallman.org/#serious
20:52 < hanno> he started this whole thingy ages ago
20:52 < stillunknown> gnu/linux
20:52 < swany> rms makes me think of tin foil helmets...
20:52 < stillunknown> linux has no userland :-)
20:52 < stillunknown> i think
20:52 < zoeloelip> stillunknown: the gnu userland
20:52 < stillunknown> but i never really knew the ideology of gnu
20:52 < stillunknown> linux dominates it
20:53 < stillunknown> which explains why torvalds dislikes the gplv3
20:53 < stillunknown> he is not an advocate of free software
20:54 < zoeloelip> stillunknown: just go to a bsd channel (pefer openbsd) and say: I like the GPL license very much :)
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20:54 < zoeloelip> for bsd people GPL isn't free enough
20:55 < marcheu> anyway, we support both linux & bsd here. so we don't need that license debate :)
20:55 < stillunknown> i think we should be more worried about things like non-free gpu drivers, than about the freedom of the gpl :-)
20:56 < zoeloelip> just to say, that in the opensource/freesoftware world there are other thought than those of the FSF
20:57 < stillunknown> opensource and freesoftware are the two main visions
21:01 < Duke`> RMS is the free software's pope
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21:13 < Moe> RMS is a dickhead .. and whomever met him once has to agree with me .. yet, his ideas are pointing to the right direction .. some of them are fundamentally flawed .. some of them I truely support
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22:10 < shawn_work>   Downloading: ftp://download.nvidia.com/XFree86/Linux-x86_64/1.0-8774/NVIDIA-Linux-x86_64-1.0-8774-pkg2.run
22:10 < shawn_work> new driver update
22:11 < shawn_work> old: Linux-x86_64 1.0-8762
22:11 < shawn_work> new: Linux-x86_64 1.0-8774
22:11 < shawn_work> will try later today marcheu 
22:11 < stillunknown> those drivers have been out for a few days already
22:12 < shawn_work> it might let me use hardware rendering
22:12 < shawn_work> OpenGL renderer string: unknown board/PCI/forceSW <--
22:12 < shawn_work> i will try after
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22:38 < EdB> pkgN only mean binarie change, isn't it ?
22:41 < phh> it is
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--- Log closed Втр Авг 29 00:00:24 2006
